• Lunar Sabbath anyone?

    I recently have been lead to keep the Commandments, including number 4. I used to remember the sabbath on Saturdays but I have since learned we really have no idea what day the 7th day of the week (with the many changings of calendars and what not).

    With that being said, I beleive the moon is appointed for us to observe the sabbaths, as stated in scripture. And the 2nd sabbath for this month is Aug 12.

    What are your thoughts?
    Lunar Sabbath anyone? I recently have been lead to keep the Commandments, including number 4. I used to remember the sabbath on Saturdays but I have since learned we really have no idea what day the 7th day of the week (with the many changings of calendars and what not). With that being said, I beleive the moon is appointed for us to observe the sabbaths, as stated in scripture. And the 2nd sabbath for this month is Aug 12. What are your thoughts?
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  • I've started wondering whether God deliberately obfuscated the calendar for some reason. Maybe He wants to delay people from gathering into a cohesive community of any real size until His timing is right and He intervenes in some way. I don't want to believe that too much though because I don't want to use that as an excuse to avoid working on it.
    I've started wondering whether God deliberately obfuscated the calendar for some reason. Maybe He wants to delay people from gathering into a cohesive community of any real size until His timing is right and He intervenes in some way. I don't want to believe that too much though because I don't want to use that as an excuse to avoid working on it.
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  • "Let's hurry up and figure out the calendar so we can realize we need to reschedule the event."
    "Let's hurry up and figure out the calendar so we can realize we need to reschedule the event."
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  • Ordering German biblical reference works to study the calendar...
    Ordering German biblical reference works to study the calendar...
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  • #calendar
    (feel free to contribute)
    Which Hebrew words/phrases need to be delved into in sorting through the calendar issues?
    אביב
    אשמרת
    בין הערבים
    בקר
    חדש
    כסא/כסה
    ליל/לילה
    מחר/מחרת
    ערב
    שבע
    שנה
    יום
    #calendar (feel free to contribute) Which Hebrew words/phrases need to be delved into in sorting through the calendar issues? אביב אשמרת בין הערבים בקר חדש כסא/כסה ליל/לילה מחר/מחרת ערב שבע שנה יום
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  • #calendar
    (feel free to contribute)
    Which verses [potentially] tell us about the calendar (days, weeks, months, years)?
    1. Verses in the commands
    2. Verses in the narrative, Genesis, etc
    3. Verses in the TNK (pre-Babylonian ideally)

    1)
    Exodus 12:2, 13:4, 20:9-10, 23:16, 29:38-39, 34:18, 34:22
    Leviticus 7:15-16, 11:24 (etc), 23:15-16, 23:27-32, 23:42, 25:22
    Numbers 19:16-19, 28:3-4
    Deuteronomy 16:1, 16:4, 16:6

    2)
    Genesis 1:3-5, 1:14-18
    Exodus 14:13-27

    3)
    Joshua 5:11
    1 Samuel 20:5, 20:27
    1 Kings 6:1, 6:38, 8:2
    Psalms 81:4/3
    Proverbs 7:20
    #calendar (feel free to contribute) Which verses [potentially] tell us about the calendar (days, weeks, months, years)? 1. Verses in the commands 2. Verses in the narrative, Genesis, etc 3. Verses in the TNK (pre-Babylonian ideally) 1) Exodus 12:2, 13:4, 20:9-10, 23:16, 29:38-39, 34:18, 34:22 Leviticus 7:15-16, 11:24 (etc), 23:15-16, 23:27-32, 23:42, 25:22 Numbers 19:16-19, 28:3-4 Deuteronomy 16:1, 16:4, 16:6 2) Genesis 1:3-5, 1:14-18 Exodus 14:13-27 3) Joshua 5:11 1 Samuel 20:5, 20:27 1 Kings 6:1, 6:38, 8:2 Psalms 81:4/3 Proverbs 7:20
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  • #calendar
    I was talking w/ Taylor and we were considering how to achieve agreement upon a calendar. Instead of approaching it as, "Here's my view, here are my reasons," vs. "Here's my view, and you need to consider these reasons instead," instead of that, we need to go back to the basics and build up from there. I think we agreed that we need to lay out all of the evidence and everything we think could be important to consider for the issue, and then we need to work from there. We need to be thorough, we need to show our work, and we need to ensure we are on the same page as we progress. In my view, this means: A) determine every verse that is relevant in the Law as far as determining the rules of the calendar, B) determine every relevant Hebrew word we need to research and produce the evidence surrounding them, C) compare and assess all relevant traditions and historic practices (e.g., Canaanite, Egyptian, Akkadian, Jewish, Samaritan, etc). That's how I intend to continue approaching this. Thoughts?
    #calendar I was talking w/ Taylor and we were considering how to achieve agreement upon a calendar. Instead of approaching it as, "Here's my view, here are my reasons," vs. "Here's my view, and you need to consider these reasons instead," instead of that, we need to go back to the basics and build up from there. I think we agreed that we need to lay out all of the evidence and everything we think could be important to consider for the issue, and then we need to work from there. We need to be thorough, we need to show our work, and we need to ensure we are on the same page as we progress. In my view, this means: A) determine every verse that is relevant in the Law as far as determining the rules of the calendar, B) determine every relevant Hebrew word we need to research and produce the evidence surrounding them, C) compare and assess all relevant traditions and historic practices (e.g., Canaanite, Egyptian, Akkadian, Jewish, Samaritan, etc). That's how I intend to continue approaching this. Thoughts?
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  • #calendar
    Rabbinic commentary:

    Chizkuni, Exodus 23:16:4
    בצאת השנה, “at the conclusion of the year, which is the beginning of the following year.”

    Ibn Ezra on Exodus 23:16:2
    AND THE FEAST OF INGATHERING, AT THE END OF THE YEAR. And a new year commences. Sowing begins in the month of Marcheshvan.[Editor: The Torah seems to tell us that the year comes to a close towards the end of Tishri (Sukkot falls in the middle of Tishri). However, the new year begins with Tishri. Hence I.E. points out that Scripture here speaks of an agricultural year. That year ends in Tishri with the fall harvest and begins in Marcheshvan when the new crop is sown.]

    Chizkuni, Exodus 34:22:2
    וחג האסיף, “and the festival of ingathering;” the end of the harvesting season around the time of the equinox in the autumn.

    Ibn Ezra on Exodus 34:22:1
    AND THE FEAST OF INGATHERING. Scripture states this189 in two places.190 Scripture there reads, at the end of the year (Ex. 23:16) because the end of the year is the beginning of the next year.191 This is the proof.192 The sun enters the constellation of Libra193 close to the tenth day.194 The new year never occurs after the end of the festival of Sukkot. Scripture therefore reads, at the turn of the year.195 Do not rely on Samuel’s circuits.196 Only rely on Rav Ada’s circuit197 even though it requires two adjustments. One, because the sun at times travels in a longer circuit and at times it travels in a shorter circuit. This difference is not in the sun’s movement, for the sun always travels in a consistent course. Its speed only appears to vary when viewed against a point in the sphere of the constellations.198 A second adjustment has to be made because of the movement of the epicycle at the head of Aries.199

    Rashi on Exodus 34:22:4
    תקופת השנה lit., [THE FESTIVAL …] THE YEARS CIRCUIT — i. e. the festival at the coming round of the year — at the beginning of the coming (the new) year.

    Rashi on Exodus 34:22:5
    תקופת is a term denoting going round.
    #calendar Rabbinic commentary: Chizkuni, Exodus 23:16:4 בצאת השנה, “at the conclusion of the year, which is the beginning of the following year.” Ibn Ezra on Exodus 23:16:2 AND THE FEAST OF INGATHERING, AT THE END OF THE YEAR. And a new year commences. Sowing begins in the month of Marcheshvan.[Editor: The Torah seems to tell us that the year comes to a close towards the end of Tishri (Sukkot falls in the middle of Tishri). However, the new year begins with Tishri. Hence I.E. points out that Scripture here speaks of an agricultural year. That year ends in Tishri with the fall harvest and begins in Marcheshvan when the new crop is sown.] Chizkuni, Exodus 34:22:2 וחג האסיף, “and the festival of ingathering;” the end of the harvesting season around the time of the equinox in the autumn. Ibn Ezra on Exodus 34:22:1 AND THE FEAST OF INGATHERING. Scripture states this189 in two places.190 Scripture there reads, at the end of the year (Ex. 23:16) because the end of the year is the beginning of the next year.191 This is the proof.192 The sun enters the constellation of Libra193 close to the tenth day.194 The new year never occurs after the end of the festival of Sukkot. Scripture therefore reads, at the turn of the year.195 Do not rely on Samuel’s circuits.196 Only rely on Rav Ada’s circuit197 even though it requires two adjustments. One, because the sun at times travels in a longer circuit and at times it travels in a shorter circuit. This difference is not in the sun’s movement, for the sun always travels in a consistent course. Its speed only appears to vary when viewed against a point in the sphere of the constellations.198 A second adjustment has to be made because of the movement of the epicycle at the head of Aries.199 Rashi on Exodus 34:22:4 תקופת השנה lit., [THE FESTIVAL …] THE YEARS CIRCUIT — i. e. the festival at the coming round of the year — at the beginning of the coming (the new) year. Rashi on Exodus 34:22:5 תקופת is a term denoting going round.
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  • "[The only significance of this passage can be the significance I am applying to it]"
    "[This wording cannot have any other possible interpretation other than the exact way I am looking at it.]"
    "[This passage that disagrees with my view is simply a later edit.]"
    ---
    These are not the kinds of things I like to see when reading a scholarly article. I'm recognizing more and more how I want to see plenty of source materials and citations. I want to see the reasoning and the justifications behind the conclusion. Just telling me that the conclusion is "obvious" or having the author tell me his own view is already "proven" is the opposite of what I want to see. I feel like it taints the entire body of work, even though I try to see beyond it and try to extract anything useful from the midst of the "leaven". I would think that these journals I've been reading in researching the calendar (and other topics prior) would filter for this kind of stuff, but apparently not.
    "[The only significance of this passage can be the significance I am applying to it]" "[This wording cannot have any other possible interpretation other than the exact way I am looking at it.]" "[This passage that disagrees with my view is simply a later edit.]" --- These are not the kinds of things I like to see when reading a scholarly article. I'm recognizing more and more how I want to see plenty of source materials and citations. I want to see the reasoning and the justifications behind the conclusion. Just telling me that the conclusion is "obvious" or having the author tell me his own view is already "proven" is the opposite of what I want to see. I feel like it taints the entire body of work, even though I try to see beyond it and try to extract anything useful from the midst of the "leaven". I would think that these journals I've been reading in researching the calendar (and other topics prior) would filter for this kind of stuff, but apparently not.
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  • #calendar
    After many hurdles, I was reading an 1881 German work by August Dillmann which claimed some of the Hebrew months are reflected in early Canaanite inscriptions (which he cited a collection of inscriptions to support this). Disappointingly, he did not apparently elaborate on the determination of the beginning of the year by the standard of the Canaanites. His view (seemingly opinion/guess) was actually the finding of the barley to call the year and the use of a 13th month in the case the crop was not yet sufficient for the offering. However, he cited a source to suggest post-equinox calculation: J. D. Michaslis de mensibus Hebraeorum § 2 in Commentationes Societ. R. Scientiarum Gotting. praelectae, Bremae 1774. This looks like another hard to find work, so I will check that out later. He also cited a source for a pre-equinox calculation which seemed to suggest it was Babylonian practice, although that seems untenable.
    #calendar After many hurdles, I was reading an 1881 German work by August Dillmann which claimed some of the Hebrew months are reflected in early Canaanite inscriptions (which he cited a collection of inscriptions to support this). Disappointingly, he did not apparently elaborate on the determination of the beginning of the year by the standard of the Canaanites. His view (seemingly opinion/guess) was actually the finding of the barley to call the year and the use of a 13th month in the case the crop was not yet sufficient for the offering. However, he cited a source to suggest post-equinox calculation: J. D. Michaslis de mensibus Hebraeorum § 2 in Commentationes Societ. R. Scientiarum Gotting. praelectae, Bremae 1774. This looks like another hard to find work, so I will check that out later. He also cited a source for a pre-equinox calculation which seemed to suggest it was Babylonian practice, although that seems untenable.
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