The goal of the group is to --seek the truth-- of the calendar used by Israel in the giving of the Torah. Discussion will ideally be centered on the establishment of facts and evidence rather than defending an a priori belief on the calendar.
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  • This may not be legitimate because the wording may not be intended to be that technical, but it is something I have thought about before when observing Sukkot.
    This may not be legitimate because the wording may not be intended to be that technical, but it is something I have thought about before when observing Sukkot.
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  • Since "between the evenings" is part of the preceding day, and since "evening" (erev, singular) is equated with it on some level,
    I don't believe we can use Yom Kippur and Festival of Unleavened Bread timing verses to prove that the day is from evening to evening.
    Lv 23:27- "...in the tenth to the month..."
    Lv 23:32- "...in ninth to the month in evening, from evening until evening you shall observe your ceasing"

    This is one of the most common prooftexts of evening to evening. I've seen it in rabbinic literature and non-rabbinic literature. If Yom Kippur is on the tenth (v.27) and that includes the ninth at evening until evening (v.32), therefore by the transitive property, one might conclude that the evening preceding is part of the tenth day.

    One issue I see with this, even apart from the former point re: between the evenings/evening, is that it says, "...ninth...in evening..." If it is normally a part of the tenth, for what reason does it not say the "tenth" at evening?
    Since "between the evenings" is part of the preceding day, and since "evening" (erev, singular) is equated with it on some level, I don't believe we can use Yom Kippur and Festival of Unleavened Bread timing verses to prove that the day is from evening to evening. Lv 23:27- "...in the tenth to the month..." Lv 23:32- "...in ninth to the month in evening, from evening until evening you shall observe your ceasing" This is one of the most common prooftexts of evening to evening. I've seen it in rabbinic literature and non-rabbinic literature. If Yom Kippur is on the tenth (v.27) and that includes the ninth at evening until evening (v.32), therefore by the transitive property, one might conclude that the evening preceding is part of the tenth day. One issue I see with this, even apart from the former point re: between the evenings/evening, is that it says, "...ninth...in evening..." If it is normally a part of the tenth, for what reason does it not say the "tenth" at evening?
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  • (as the sun enters/entered/comes/came/sets)
    כְּבוֹא הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ

    The 1 Kings example makes me wonder a bit, unless kbo hashemesh is a broader period of time (e.g., twilight rather than just sunset) or unless erev includes time before sunset itself.

    Dt 16:6 "...you shall slaughter the passover in evening (erev) as the sun enters..." (SP and Ex 12 say between the evenings instead of evening)
    Dt 24:13 "you shall restore to him the pledge as the sun enters, and he shall lie down in his garment..."
    Dt 23:12 "and it shall be as the evening is coming on (or, "it shall be to the face of evening") he shall wash in water, and as the sun enters, he shall enter to midst of the camp"
    Js 8:29 "...he hung on the tree until time of the evening, and as the sun entered...they took down his carcass..."
    1 Ki 22:35-36 "and the battle ascended in that day...and he died in the evening...and the proclamation passed in the camp as the sun entered..."
    (as the sun enters/entered/comes/came/sets) כְּבוֹא הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ The 1 Kings example makes me wonder a bit, unless kbo hashemesh is a broader period of time (e.g., twilight rather than just sunset) or unless erev includes time before sunset itself. Dt 16:6 "...you shall slaughter the passover in evening (erev) as the sun enters..." (SP and Ex 12 say between the evenings instead of evening) Dt 24:13 "you shall restore to him the pledge as the sun enters, and he shall lie down in his garment..." Dt 23:12 "and it shall be as the evening is coming on (or, "it shall be to the face of evening") he shall wash in water, and as the sun enters, he shall enter to midst of the camp" Js 8:29 "...he hung on the tree until time of the evening, and as the sun entered...they took down his carcass..." 1 Ki 22:35-36 "and the battle ascended in that day...and he died in the evening...and the proclamation passed in the camp as the sun entered..."
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  • ("between the evenings") בֵּין הָעַרְבָּיִם is part of the preceding day. Ex 29:38-39.
    ("between the evenings") בֵּין הָעַרְבָּיִם is part of the preceding day. Ex 29:38-39.
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  • Exodus 29:38-39
    And this is what you shall do on the altar: young rams, sons of the year, two for a *day* (yom) continually. 39 The one young ram you shall do in the morning (boqer), and the second young ram you shall do *between the evenings* (bein ha-arbayim).
    Exodus 29:38-39 And this is what you shall do on the altar: young rams, sons of the year, two for a *day* (yom) continually. 39 The one young ram you shall do in the morning (boqer), and the second young ram you shall do *between the evenings* (bein ha-arbayim).
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  • What are the alternative explanations for " וַיְהִי־עֶרֶב וַיְהִי־בֹקֶר יוֹם אֶחָד " (and it was evening and it was morning day one)?
    What are the alternative explanations for " וַיְהִי־עֶרֶב וַיְהִי־בֹקֶר יוֹם אֶחָד " (and it was evening and it was morning day one)?
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  • Found it, but the timing of it being in the captivity makes it seem questionable.
    Found it, but the timing of it being in the captivity makes it seem questionable.
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  • ym ḥdt as day of new moon (1st day)
    ym mlat as day of full moon (~15th day)
    mlat would have its Hebrew cognate as mla (full, filled, fullness)

    Picture from "Poetic Astronomy in the Ancient Near East..." by Cooley.
    ym ḥdt as day of new moon (1st day) ym mlat as day of full moon (~15th day) mlat would have its Hebrew cognate as mla (full, filled, fullness) Picture from "Poetic Astronomy in the Ancient Near East..." by Cooley.
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  • Post-Babylonian captivity.
    "(41) ...that which comes after the conjunction, which happens on the day of the new moon in each month"
    "(140) Following the order which we have adopted, we proceed to speak of the third festival, that of the new moon. First of all, because it is the beginning of the month, and the beginning, whether of number or of time, is honourable. Secondly, because at this time there is nothing in the whole of heaven destitute of light. (141) Thirdly, because at that period the more powerful and important body gives a portion of necessary assistance to the less important and weaker body; for, at the time of the new moon, the sun begins to illuminate the moon with a light which is visible to the outward senses, and then she displays her own beauty to the beholders."
    "This month, being the seventh both in number and order, according to the revolutions of the sun, is the first in power; (151) on which account it is also called the first in the sacred scriptures. And the reason, as I imagine, is as follows. The vernal equinox is an imitation and representation of that beginning in accordance with which this world was created. Accordingly, every year, God reminds men of the creation of the world, and with this view puts forward the spring, in which season all plants flourish and bloom; (152) for which reason this is very correctly set down in the law as the first month, since, in a manner, it may be said to be an impression of the first beginning of all, being stamped by it as by an archetypal Seal."
    - Philo, The Special Laws, Book 2
    Post-Babylonian captivity. "(41) ...that which comes after the conjunction, which happens on the day of the new moon in each month" "(140) Following the order which we have adopted, we proceed to speak of the third festival, that of the new moon. First of all, because it is the beginning of the month, and the beginning, whether of number or of time, is honourable. Secondly, because at this time there is nothing in the whole of heaven destitute of light. (141) Thirdly, because at that period the more powerful and important body gives a portion of necessary assistance to the less important and weaker body; for, at the time of the new moon, the sun begins to illuminate the moon with a light which is visible to the outward senses, and then she displays her own beauty to the beholders." "This month, being the seventh both in number and order, according to the revolutions of the sun, is the first in power; (151) on which account it is also called the first in the sacred scriptures. And the reason, as I imagine, is as follows. The vernal equinox is an imitation and representation of that beginning in accordance with which this world was created. Accordingly, every year, God reminds men of the creation of the world, and with this view puts forward the spring, in which season all plants flourish and bloom; (152) for which reason this is very correctly set down in the law as the first month, since, in a manner, it may be said to be an impression of the first beginning of all, being stamped by it as by an archetypal Seal." - Philo, The Special Laws, Book 2
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  • A possible argument against beginning the year on the new moon closest (i.e. sometimes before) the vernal equinox:

    1. There are approximately 186 days between the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, and 179 from autumnal to the next vernal.

    2. If you count six synodic months of 29.5 days each, that's 177, a difference of 9 days.

    3. Sukkot begins the 15th day of the seventh month, which puts it at roughly at 191 days from whatever new moon is determined to be the start of the year.

    If you consider the first new moon after the equinox to be the the first month of the year, the earliest it can be is the day of the vernal equinox plus 1 day. That would put Sukkot at about day 192 after the vernal equinox, firmly in fall about 6 days after the autumnal equinox.

    If you consider the new moon closest to the vernal equinox to be the first day of the year, the earliest it can be is the day of the equinox minus 14 days. This would put Sukkot at roughly day 177 after the vernal equinox, and thus Sukkot (all 8 days) would conclude before the autumnal equinox, putting one in the situation of beginning the year in winter and observing Sukkot in summer.
    A possible argument against beginning the year on the new moon closest (i.e. sometimes before) the vernal equinox: 1. There are approximately 186 days between the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, and 179 from autumnal to the next vernal. 2. If you count six synodic months of 29.5 days each, that's 177, a difference of 9 days. 3. Sukkot begins the 15th day of the seventh month, which puts it at roughly at 191 days from whatever new moon is determined to be the start of the year. If you consider the first new moon after the equinox to be the the first month of the year, the earliest it can be is the day of the vernal equinox plus 1 day. That would put Sukkot at about day 192 after the vernal equinox, firmly in fall about 6 days after the autumnal equinox. If you consider the new moon closest to the vernal equinox to be the first day of the year, the earliest it can be is the day of the equinox minus 14 days. This would put Sukkot at roughly day 177 after the vernal equinox, and thus Sukkot (all 8 days) would conclude before the autumnal equinox, putting one in the situation of beginning the year in winter and observing Sukkot in summer.
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